Hellooooo, it’s me.

I’m back from vacay and I think I’m a new person??? A few days in the sun with snacks and books will do that to me.

❤️ So immensely grateful for my friend for hosting me in her lake house and putting up with my never-ending nonsense.

🎧 An award show for HR? I MADE ONE!!!! Ryanmae and Josiah join me on the pod for the most unhinged episode I’ve done in a loooong time. We give out awards to all things HR and then geek out about our shared interests. If you want a good laugh this would give you just that!

📺 This month on HR Therapy: what keeps people motivated?? And what is going on with the work vibes? This and MORE on this upcoming HR Therapy that I am genuinely geeeeking over.

Now, onto todayyyy exit interviews or trust fall?

Builder Mode

The great exit interview trust fall fail:Copy anchor linkCopied

Say that headline 5 times fast, I dare you!!

Okay, you know the drill, someone's leaving so an exit interview is scheduled to make sure to collect feedback on why.

90% of the time you get the same three answers:

I have no complaints!

I just wanted a new challenge and this new opportunity gave me that!

There’s nothing the company could've done differently!

Polite. Somewhat vague. Usually useless.

🚨Then every once in a while someone lets it RIP. 🚨

For a glorious 30 - 45 minutes, you get the real story.

The manager who played favorites. The promotion they were promised that never materialized. The meeting that was the straw that broke the camel’s back. The leadership pivot that made no sense and was communicated poorly.

The hunches you had are CONFIRMED!! I knew it she whispers to herself.

So, why did that employee just let it rip?? And how can we get every employee to be that honest?

My hunches are that these employees are usually one of two types:

1. The ones who don't GAF anymore because they know they're never coming back, leaving has already severed the incentive to be polite.

2. The ones who actually trust HR (a novel concept, I know), and are telling you the truth because they believe it'll go somewhere and something could change.

The uncomfortable truth: exit interviews are less of a data problem and more of a trust problem.

Most HR teams I know treat exit interviews like a data collection exercise. Ask the questions, log the answers, move on.

But departing employees aren't withholding info because they don't have any, they're withholding it because:

• They don't believe anything will change (so why bother)
• They're already checked out and just want to leave clean
• The person asking (HR or mangagers) is the least safe person to hear it

That last one is the part almost nobody fixes!

⚒️ Today in the HR Home Improvement Challenge: improving the exit interview.

3 ways to improve the exit interview:Copy anchor linkCopied

Who, what, and when… not just questions I learned to ask in my high school journalism class!!

But three things to change when it comes to exit interviews.

👀 Who: Usually we defer to HR to conduct the exit interview but we all know employees don’t instinctively trust HR. I also want to add they might not even like HR. I remember doing an exit interview for an employee that kept requesting a salary increase and the manager + I had to tell them no several times. The exit interview was… frosty. They didn’t answer any question truthfully and I could tell they were counting down the minutes until they didn’t have to interact with me anymore. However, they did tell the manager they thought I was condescending when explaining our compensation philosophy. Okayyyy.

Think about this: If a manager or HR runs the exit interview, you're asking someone to be honest to the exact structure they're trying to escape.

Wild idea: What if we considered a neutral third party, or rotate interviews to someone outside their direct chain? The hurdle I’m trying to overcome with someone outside the chain is what if something confidential is shared. But again, I said wild idea!

✍🏽 What: The standard exit interview is usually conversations. But what if we changed up the format? Paired a short anonymous survey with an actual conversation. That way you can get consistent numerical trendlines with the context behind the numbers! The survey will also give you pattern data across exits. And patterns are incredibly helpful when it comes to telling a story.

⏰ When: Most exit interviews happen before an employee departs but in that last week employees legit have zero incentive to be helpful or thorough, because they're mentally checked out.

Wild idea: A check-in 30-60 days after departure. At that point there isn’t any more awkwardness and maybe a chance for real truths to be shared? A caveat: The few times I’ve tried this the former employee ghosted me. So it’s not best to rely on just this. A strategy could be an anon survey before they leave and then follow up convo 30 days later or vice versa.

📣 None of this matters if nothing happens with what you learn.

If you're already the person who takes exit feedback and builds an action plan, GREAT!!!! Keep doing that, that's the second half of the equation and where a lot of teams struggle.

But just remember… you can’t fix what you don’t know. And sometimes we don’t get the full truth!

Like I said at the start, the verdict here is to improve. The ritual is worth keeping. Most companies are just running it in a way that almost guarantees you’ll get a sanitized answer, and then acting surprised when the data feels off.

What’s next:Copy anchor linkCopied

So that's exit interviews: not broken, just sometimes badly built. If you can fix the "room," then you might get enough info to make some real changes so the next person who walks isn't citing something you've had a hunch on!

I've handed out a lot of 🔨 Improve stamps this quarter. Onboarding, 1:1s, now this.

At some point "it just needs better execution" starts to feel annoying. I know it, you know it, we all know it.

Sooooo next week, I'm not fixing anything!! I'm tearing something down. Stay tuned!!

XOXO your favorite builder

(HUMAN) RESOURCES

• Zuck lays out future around AI
• Job losses in July jobs report
• More recalls on food... including guac
• Economic pressure and the Strait of Hormuz

WORK-LIFE BALANCE

• 📚 What I’m reading: Sex Positive by Brooklyn Rose. MY FRIEND WROTE A BOOK Y'ALL AND IT'S REALLY GOOD!!! I met Brooklyn at a writer's retreat over a year and a half ago. We bonded over our love of fanfic and tropes and since then i've been following this release closely. I devoured this book and I was so impressed by the storytelling, themes and world she built. I remember her reading us a sample at that retreat and being SAT. Anyways, Brooklyn if you're reading this - YOU DID IT!! If you're a fan of Elle Kennedy (Off Campus) you're gonna loooove this.
• 📺 What I’m watching: The Challenge. My fave show returns!!!!!!!! I actually missed the premiere because I felt like they did zero promo?? Instead I got a Tiktok clip and screamed how I hadn't watched the new episode yet. Anyways, if you need me I'm deep in a new szn and new characters.
• 👋🏽 What I’m obsessing over: Outdoors skills. If you dropped me off in the wilderness, IDK if I would make it back to this keyboard. Sooo, I've had on my list this year to learn some outdoor skills. What does that mean exactly? IDK. But I'm going to figure it out!!!

SONG OF THE WEEK

🎧 I Won’t Say (I’m in Love), The Muses & MegCopy anchor linkCopied

Listen here, I LOVE ME SOME DISNEY MUSIC.

Hercules would probs rank in the top of my fave movies. Aladdin (duh) and Beauty and the Beast are up there too.

That's all for today folks, it may be Monday but we got this!!!!!

Reminder: Take care of yourself and know that I support you.